FMS SID/STAR logic?
First, I want to say what a great addon the Q400 is. I am thoroughly enjoying it. Great job.
My question is about the FMC logic regarding SIDs and STARs. By way of background I was planning a flight from KLAS to KPSP. The typical routing is BOACH8 TNP SBONO1. The BOACH8 departure as both a runway specific portion and a transition specific portion. In the Majestic Q400 the FMS seems incapable of selecting both portions. When I select DEPART from the MENU and then select runway 26R, then BOACH8, at that point I am only able to select runway 26R as the transition. If I do not select a departure runway and go directly to the BOACH8 SID then I can select the TNP transition, but at that point the routing goes directly to the RIKII intersection from the runway and there is no way to add the runway 26L specific routing, other than to add it manually, waypoint by waypoint. If, on the otherhand I select the runway, 26R, and the SID, BOACH8, I get the specific routing from the runway to the BOACH intersection but I then can not select the TNP transition and I get none of the waypoints after BOACH. It is clear that all of the date is in the navigation database.
I know this has been long and I apologize. If someone can confirm that this is the case in the real airplane then I will be fine with that and will enter the needed waypoints manually. I'm just guessing that, in the real airplane, this is possible. Looking forward to some input on this. Thank you.
Comments
Hello Dave,
I tried and got more or less the same results.
Either you enter the Rwy and you do not get the transition WPs or you do not select the Rwy but directly the SID: BOACH8, then you go to page 2, select TNP as transition and there you have the WPs after BOACH but not before.
I tried different ways but did not get luckier than you.
See if someone has an idea.
JP
Hello, I do not fly with the Dash in the US, so I did not notice that on this plane so far, but I have tested it negative for me too. At various US airports with corresponding Transitions these are not displayed. So I wanted to change the AIRAC, currently fly with 0617, but also that did not work. I wanted to go back to 1513, this was installed, the files overwritten accordingly, but are not displayed or considered in the FMS. There was a thread here, is or was probably due to Navigraph. Currently I can only select the SID and the respective Rwy as a transition.
It is clear to me that the navigation database has all of the waypoints for the BOACH8 departure out of KLAS so I don't think that is the issue. If someone can confirm for me that the real airplane has the same issue then I'd be satisfied to dealing with it manually. I just have a sneaking suspicion that the real airplane would be able to select the entire procedure without the need for manual entry of any of the waypoints.
It could be a database problem.
I tried another airport with quite a similar departure: LIMC
Rwy35L - SID FARA5M - Transition LAG9U -
You have all the WPs up to LAGEN
JP
Hello Majestic support?
I have not been able to test this indepth but we'll add this to the list of items needing further troubleshooting.
To give you clarification that the real aircraft does the same thing is a bit beyond my scope in that I don't have access to the real aircraft. But we'll check with some of the alpha test members for some input.
There also could very well be an issue with the navigraph database since we made some changes format wise when we switched over to the 64bjt platform. It's not a perfect system and some tweaking may very well be necessary.
Cheers.
Ok, thanks for the response. I'll keep researching as well. Let me know what you find out.
Thanks
I'd like to know what's going on in this matter.
In this case, OKESA 5 Departure is not only valid for one Rwy, but also for Rwys 04, 10, 22, 28. The starting point, here Rwy 10, has to be confirmed again as first transition. In the link on page 6 you can see the logic of the departure route. Unfortunately, this is followed by 2 possible 2nd transitions after OKESA, but unfortunately you can no longer select this after selecting the first SID, only one transition is possible. If you do not select a Rwy, but rather the Departure, you can select the 2nd transition, but not a specific Rwy. The routing shown in the FPL page begins with the 286 ° leg. Something similar results everywhere where there is a departure for all Rwy, and also several, real transitions (e.g. KLAX)
https://yinlei.org/x-plane10/doc/AIP-J/RJSN_Niigata.pdf
The operation is different from that based on the Universal FMS Operating Manual.
It's impossible to fly based on a chart when the Pilot Data - SID/STAR page in the Data page isn't implemented in its current state.
Confirming the Q400 FMS1-E SID transition selection logic issue still persists, at least in PRO v1.021.
Example, using Navigraph AIRAC 2014: Origin KBUR, DEPART enter R33 select SID SLAPP2 and FMS offers RW33 as transition and adds only the first two waypoints (RAYVE & SLAPP) in the FPL. If instead (as noted by Dave_Paige) you do not select a RWY, but instead choose SID SLAPP2, then see a full list of transitions. But if you select one e.g. MISEN, the FMS omits the first (runway specific) waypoint RAYVE but does insert the remaining 7 waypoints beginnning with SLAPP and ending at MISEN.
It is possible to go back and manually add RAYVE before SLAPP.
@ChuckO
Could it be that the procedures in the US are a bit different than the procedures in Europe. I do not know as I never flew there as a pilot.
Looking at the SID, apparently we do not go directly to RAYVE but are vectorized there:
Then we go to SLAPP and follow the transition assigned, in our case: MISEN. So it appears that the method of entering the SID first and choosing the transition would be right and there is no need to enter RAYVE as ATC would direct us there.
A comment from a RW pilot flying in the US would be much appreciated
There is nothing wrong with the database from Navigraph as, entering the same SID with PFPX, choosing the Rwy and the transition, all the WPs are there. But PFPX is a flight planner and has nothing to do with following a SID. The purpose of a flight planner is only to give us distances, time, fuel, weights, etc. See attached file.
JP
The issue Dave_Paige pointed out is generic, and not specific to the KBUR SLAPP2. If you select a SID with a runway specific transition, the downroute transition fixes after the root fix aren't later offered. ( BTW Runway specific transitions before the root can include vectoring to a fix, as they do at KBUR. )
How about current status of bug fixing?