Not very nice, but you can see that it works. The flight went from EVRA to EYVI. The problem with the 5000 ft came from adjusting the regional air pressure.
Because I don't understand if I don't put alt select
Plane will descent even if I put 11000 so why you put 11000 instead of 5000 and alt select and will respect all altitude constraint.
Thank you for the pictures.
When you set vnav for 11000 you don't set anymore for the next altitude constraint ?
Only set next lower altitude and vnav will continue to descent ?
So I want to make it a bit realistic, even when I'm flying offline. If you are released by ATC at a height, you set this as ALT SEL on the MCP, because I am not allowed to sink any lower. I could set the 5000 or 3000 without ATC, then the descent would go to this height, but still take into account all restrictions. You can play a lot there if you understand the AP modes. When is the best time to use which AP modes are part of an airline's line training. I often only fly the first part of the descent with VNAV and then switch to V / S, but then switch back to VNAV for the final approach if necessary.
There is a way to have it LNAV/RNAV all the way down to GIZOQ is to fly the MOPAR 8Z transition (Jeppesen chart 21-0B4). This procedure is used only at night but who cares with the sim.
Without ATC you are right in choosing the LOST COM procedure.
After MUS you do not follow LNAV/VNAV anymore. You are with the BLUE NEEDLES.
If you were with ATC they were not going to ask you to be at FL120 at TIPIK and MUS at 5000' as they know the performances of each aircraft and loosing 7000' in about 2'30" is possible but a bit much for the Q400.
MUS 5000' is not such a constraint, it is a safety altitude, same between MUS and IF 4000'.
The best way for you would be to select 5000' for MUS with ALT SEL and after MUS 4000 with ALT SEL, VS around 1/2 the GS for the 3°.
So, being 5000' at MUS, HDG 088° ALT SEL 4000' APPR to intercept the LOC, the glideslope is going to be active at 12.5 Nm and the ILS is going to bring you down to the Rwy. Be careful as the LOC is OFFSET 2°. If you choose Rwy 04L, then you are on the Rwy axis.
The point D17 is not for you, it is when coming from NERAS.
Just a question.
I never use ATC.
If I use atc I can't use vnav because I must to wait atc
say me when to descent ?
So must to use V/S to descent and I must to calcul
V/S feet I must to use.
In that case I would go down with V / S. On the one hand, ATC expects a certain rate of descent (I mean there are sometimes different values of 500/1000 ft / min.), On the other hand, the instruction to sink is not always associated with a certain waypoint, but you fly on your planned routing and get that Instruction to drop to FL xyz, what should I program with VNAV? The programming of VNAV based on the first waypoint with a restriction generates a TOD, by which one can orientate oneself and prepare, nothing more. Knowing AP modes and using them sensibly is not just VNAV. ATC also knows what the individual aircraft types can do and what can be expected of them.
SATOT and NOPOS are AT OR BELOW restrictions, whereas PIGNET is an AT OR ABOVE restriction. The horizontal line below or above the altitude is your cue.
Well, it starts with SATOK with in or below 11000, with PIGNA in or above 5000 and DEGVI in or below 9000. This doesn't really contradict each other, since the two larger values represent maximum values, the 5000 a minimum value. This navigation point is in the terminal area of CYMX, where the corresponding procedures and heights are taken into account.
It really is a difficult subject, it seems to me. From the cruise, you program VNAV with the first waypoint in the direction of flight with an altitude restriction. This will be somewhere on the STAR or the transition. From this, the FMS now calculates the TOD, for you an orientation where the descent, if you fly according to the charts, begins. If you are flying online, it is a clue from where ATC may instruct you to descend (so you should have completed your descend preparations).
For the first sinking it is necessary to set the ALT in the MCP to a lower value and to arm the VNAV. We've also had the topic of heights before. The real altitude is entered as SEL, which ATC instructs us. With further instructions, this is reduced again and again and secured with SEL, otherwise there is a risk that at some point you will continue to sink without ATC approval, because the VNAV profile specifies it. If you then sink once in VNAV mode, VNAV complies with all restrictions, i.e. sinks to an altitude, holds it if there is no further descent at first and then continues to sink at some point if the VNAV profile specifies this.
Due to vectors or technical circumstances (waypoints without specified restrictions) it may be necessary, or simply better, to switch to VS and cancel VNAV. Then simply activate VS. sink to the desired or instructed height and adjust the sink rate if necessary.
If you are cruising at FL 240 and, according to the ATC, are supposed to sink to 11000 ft, it will happen with VNAV that if there is a waypoint with a restriction of 15000 ft in between, VNAV levels the descent to 15000 ft and first to the instructed ones 11000 ft will continue to sink when the VNAV profile specifies this again. But that's not what ATC intended, they want you to sink directly to 11000 ft. So here you have to go down with VS to do ATC justice. At some point, in your case, ATC will release you or yourself to 3000 ft and send you on an intercept heading to the final approach. The approach in your case is an ILS approach.
I think VNAV is not so superficially the mode that is used in normal descent, but VS. If you fly alone and strictly according to the charts, you can use VNAV taking into account the technical characteristics.
Comments
Look this video.
First constraint with alt select
Not very nice, but you can see that it works. The flight went from EVRA to EYVI. The problem with the 5000 ft came from adjusting the regional air pressure.
Plane will descent even if I put 11000 so why you put 11000 instead of 5000 and alt select and will respect all altitude constraint.
Thank you for the pictures.
When you set vnav for 11000 you don't set anymore for the next altitude constraint ?
Only set next lower altitude and vnav will continue to descent ?
So I want to make it a bit realistic, even when I'm flying offline. If you are released by ATC at a height, you set this as ALT SEL on the MCP, because I am not allowed to sink any lower. I could set the 5000 or 3000 without ATC, then the descent would go to this height, but still take into account all restrictions. You can play a lot there if you understand the AP modes. When is the best time to use which AP modes are part of an airline's line training. I often only fly the first part of the descent with VNAV and then switch to V / S, but then switch back to VNAV for the final approach if necessary.
To Hélico 55,
There is a way to have it LNAV/RNAV all the way down to GIZOQ is to fly the MOPAR 8Z transition (Jeppesen chart 21-0B4). This procedure is used only at night but who cares with the sim.
flight plan LFRS to LFMN
Sid:LUGE3V
star:NISA6R
runway:4R
sorry for the picture but can you help me for wapoint between MUS and CI04R ?
MUS have not constraint,must i add constraint for MUS ?
Hi,
Without ATC you are right in choosing the LOST COM procedure.
After MUS you do not follow LNAV/VNAV anymore. You are with the BLUE NEEDLES.
If you were with ATC they were not going to ask you to be at FL120 at TIPIK and MUS at 5000' as they know the performances of each aircraft and loosing 7000' in about 2'30" is possible but a bit much for the Q400.
MUS 5000' is not such a constraint, it is a safety altitude, same between MUS and IF 4000'.
The best way for you would be to select 5000' for MUS with ALT SEL and after MUS 4000 with ALT SEL, VS around 1/2 the GS for the 3°.
So, being 5000' at MUS, HDG 088° ALT SEL 4000' APPR to intercept the LOC, the glideslope is going to be active at 12.5 Nm and the ILS is going to bring you down to the Rwy. Be careful as the LOC is OFFSET 2°. If you choose Rwy 04L, then you are on the Rwy axis.
The point D17 is not for you, it is when coming from NERAS.
JP
I never use ATC.
If I use atc I can't use vnav because I must to wait atc
say me when to descent ?
So must to use V/S to descent and I must to calcul
V/S feet I must to use.
In that case I would go down with V / S. On the one hand, ATC expects a certain rate of descent (I mean there are sometimes different values of 500/1000 ft / min.), On the other hand, the instruction to sink is not always associated with a certain waypoint, but you fly on your planned routing and get that Instruction to drop to FL xyz, what should I program with VNAV? The programming of VNAV based on the first waypoint with a restriction generates a TOD, by which one can orientate oneself and prepare, nothing more. Knowing AP modes and using them sensibly is not just VNAV. ATC also knows what the individual aircraft types can do and what can be expected of them.
Why on the picture Satot 11000 and next constraint Pigna 5000 and after Nopos 9000 ?
It's star Lafleur 6 for Cyul 10-2E navigraph chart.
Well, it starts with SATOK with in or below 11000, with PIGNA in or above 5000 and DEGVI in or below 9000. This doesn't really contradict each other, since the two larger values represent maximum values, the 5000 a minimum value. This navigation point is in the terminal area of CYMX, where the corresponding procedures and heights are taken into account.
For Cyul runway 24 R
Must I set vnav with Lonna 3000 feet ?
The total Jeppesen document is 1435 pages.
Here is the explanation for SID/STARs.
JP
It really is a difficult subject, it seems to me. From the cruise, you program VNAV with the first waypoint in the direction of flight with an altitude restriction. This will be somewhere on the STAR or the transition. From this, the FMS now calculates the TOD, for you an orientation where the descent, if you fly according to the charts, begins. If you are flying online, it is a clue from where ATC may instruct you to descend (so you should have completed your descend preparations).
For the first sinking it is necessary to set the ALT in the MCP to a lower value and to arm the VNAV. We've also had the topic of heights before. The real altitude is entered as SEL, which ATC instructs us. With further instructions, this is reduced again and again and secured with SEL, otherwise there is a risk that at some point you will continue to sink without ATC approval, because the VNAV profile specifies it. If you then sink once in VNAV mode, VNAV complies with all restrictions, i.e. sinks to an altitude, holds it if there is no further descent at first and then continues to sink at some point if the VNAV profile specifies this.
Due to vectors or technical circumstances (waypoints without specified restrictions) it may be necessary, or simply better, to switch to VS and cancel VNAV. Then simply activate VS. sink to the desired or instructed height and adjust the sink rate if necessary.
If you are cruising at FL 240 and, according to the ATC, are supposed to sink to 11000 ft, it will happen with VNAV that if there is a waypoint with a restriction of 15000 ft in between, VNAV levels the descent to 15000 ft and first to the instructed ones 11000 ft will continue to sink when the VNAV profile specifies this again. But that's not what ATC intended, they want you to sink directly to 11000 ft. So here you have to go down with VS to do ATC justice. At some point, in your case, ATC will release you or yourself to 3000 ft and send you on an intercept heading to the final approach. The approach in your case is an ILS approach.
I think VNAV is not so superficially the mode that is used in normal descent, but VS. If you fly alone and strictly according to the charts, you can use VNAV taking into account the technical characteristics.