V-Speed Calculator and Setter (XML Gauge)

Hello everyone

I had created an XML gauge to calculate and set V-Speeds in the MJC8 Q400. As the related discussion thread was lost with the death of the old forum, I am listing the URL's here for those who are interested.

(1) The gauge can be downloaded at:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/mycyc680qj2bnc2/AADA8bFhjQ1gQ4s3hBRTeGTEa?dl=0

(2) The gauge requires the concurrent installation of Tom Aguilo's XML Tools:
FSX: https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/resources/xmltools-2-01-xml-expansion-module-for-fsx.148/
P3Dv2: https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/resources/xmltools3d-a-common-xml-expansion-module-for-p3d-2-2.132/
P3Dv3: https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/resources/xmltools3d-for-p3d-v3-x.168/
P3Dv4: https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/resources/xmltools64-for-p3d-v4-v1-0.197/

(3) If you are using the XML Tools version for P3Dv4 you may need to download an update from the thread at:
https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/xmltools-xmltables-not-functioning-correctly.440850/

I have attached the latest README to this post.

Regards,

Chakko

Comments

  • I installed everything, but all of a sudden I had no atc. I don't know if it was the xml tool for my p3d 4 or what but I had to reinstall p3d.

  • edited July 30

    It looks interesting, but I managed to open this window only once...
    I probably me it closed it, it no longer appears...
    Maybe incorrectly made changes to configuration files?

    P3DV4\SimObjects\Airplanes\mjc8q400\ panel.cfg
    22 11

    dll.xml
    33

    view
    44

    XMLTools64
    55

    What's wrong?

  • Press the "Alt" key to open the menu bar. Under the vehicle tab/instrument panel, there will be a list of all of the Q400 panels, including the v-speeds gauge.

  • edited July 31

    I alternately pressed both, the left and right ALT key, and the only thing that happens is the Selection of the tab scenario in the upper left corner of the screen...
    what am I doing wrong? :(
    what

  • edited July 31

    You just have to click the "vehicle" tab, then, in the drop down window, move your mouse cursor over "instrument panel", and the list of panels should be displayed. It is then only a matter of moving your mouse down the list to the Q400 V-speed gauge and clicking on it.

  • edited August 1

    exactly :D thx o:)
    but he gauge now displays erratic and spurious results from the V-Speed computation...
    and used the latest version XML Tools, probably the XML Tools module needs to be updated again ...
    speeds

  • edited August 1

    everything works, but only with the XML Tools version from the : https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/attachments/xmltools64-zip.40019/
    Thx!

    made a mini comparison for flaps 5 with a similar script but running on Lua Script (in FSUIPC) http://majesticsoftware.com/forums/discussion/494/majestic-q400-v-speed-calculator-
    and-setter#latest

    speeds

    As you can see, the lua script uses accurate data on the table for a weight of 28000 kg, (although the actual one is about ~26400) and it is more logical to use a table with a weight of 26000 maybe?
    at that time, the XML gauge does not use the weight of either 26,000 or 28,000, but takes something in between these weights, I wonder how it would actually be more correct, any thoughts?

  • @niksan29 said:

    made a mini comparison for flaps 5 with a similar script but running on Lua Script (in FSUIPC) http://majesticsoftware.com/forums/discussion/494/majestic-q400-v-speed-calculator-
    and-setter#latest

    speeds

    As you can see, the lua script uses accurate data on the table for a weight of 28000 kg, (although the actual one is about ~26400) and it is more logical to use a table with a weight of 26000 maybe?
    at that time, the XML gauge does not use the weight of either 26,000 or 28,000, but takes something in between these weights, I wonder how it would actually be more correct, any thoughts?

    The gauge is programmed to "linearly interpolate on the weight axis (and altitude axis if applicable) of the MJC8Q400 T/O Speeds Card, and then round up to the next highest integer." This is why you are seeing an intermediate value in the example you have chosen. But the LUA script (not my creation) does not do that; it works with the higher of the two values.

    I chose to interpolate, because the MJC8Q400 T/O Speeds Card tables are actually only a summary of the original tables which contain more intermediate data points on all axes.

    The work of interpolation is done by the functions provided by the XML Tools package.

    The gauge was developed for FSX SP2, which I still use exclusively :-) . I have no experience with its extended use in P3D4, so I leave it to other users to comment on that. It is a pity that the original discussion thread with a lot of relevant information has been lost.

  • @ckovoor said:
    But the LUA script (not my creation) does not do that; it works with the higher of the two values.

    Yes, in the screenshot above, we can just see it

    @ckovoor said:
    t is a pity that the original discussion thread with a lot of relevant information has been lost.

    I completely agree

    I also wanted to ask you what you think about this:
    http://majesticsoftware.com/forums/discussion/509/mjc8-q400-landing-speeds-card-incomplete-data#latest
    ?

  • edited August 7

    noticed a small problem, does not add + 20 to Vref (only flap 35), when icing button pressed
    ice
    it would be great if you fixed it :) o:)

  • @niksan29 said:
    noticed a small problem, does not add + 20 to Vref (only flap 35), when icing button pressed

    Thanks for pointing this out.

    Now, the Majestic Landing Speeds Card says:
    "When flying in icing conditions, Add 20 kts to Vapp, Vref, Vga for Flaps 10, 15 and 35":

    However, the Q400 AOM says:
    "Add 20 kts to Vapp and Vga for Flaps 5, 10 and 15 on initial detection of ice and when flying in icing conditions"
    and:
    "On initial detection of ice and when flying in icing conditions, Add 20 kts to Vref for Flaps 10 and 15 and 15 kts for Flaps 35"

    Currently the code executes this instruction:
    "-- if icing conditions and Flaps 5, 10 or 15 add 20 kts each to Vapp, Vref and Vga and check some flap selected to avoid increasing numbers if ICING pressed alone --"

    I shall consider amending the code to also include this subsequent instruction:
    "-- if icing conditions and Flaps 35 add 15 kts to Vref and check some flap selected to avoid increasing numbers if ICING pressed alone --"

    I'll notify the forum of any revision once I get to doing it.

    Regards,

    Chakko.

  • edited August 10
    > @ckovoor said:
    > Thanks for pointing this out.

    thank you o:)

    > @ckovoor said:
    > Now, the Majestic Landing Speeds Card says:
    > "When flying in icing conditions, Add 20 kts to Vapp, Vref, Vga for Flaps 10, 15 and 35":
    > However, the Q400 AOM says:
    > "Add 20 kts to Vapp and Vga for Flaps 5, 10 and 15 on initial detection of ice and when flying in icing conditions"
    > and:
    > "On initial detection of ice and when flying in icing conditions, Add 20 kts to Vref for Flaps 10 and 15 and 15 kts for Flaps 35"

    Better done and as majestic says o:)

    > @ckovoor said:
    > I'll notify the forum of any revision once I get to doing it.

    I will really wait, flaps 35 are my favorites B)


    p/s FCOM says:
    Holding, Approach and Landing (REF SPEEDS to
    INCR)
    Use Flap 35° for Landing unless CAT II approach or with one engine inoperative.
    Bug increased VREF Speed and VCLIMB + 20 kts.
    And Icing conditions and Ref Speeds Switch – INCR: Increase speed by 20 kts.
  • I have amended the code to include the new instruction:
    "-- if icing conditions and Flaps 35 add 15 kts to Vref and check some flap selected to avoid increasing numbers if ICING pressed alone --"
    and have uploaded version 1.3 of the gauge to the Dropbox link:
    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ly3vz0dohpj7bt9/AAD12m9lMAc3XSr69H1zVg7Ma?dl=0
    (The earlier version 1.2 has been removed and the associated link is defunct.)
    Thanks.

  • edited September 3
    > @ckovoor said:
    > I have amended the code to include the new instruction:
    Thank you!
    But why 15 knots ?! It should be 20, everywhere it says 20, I don’t know where you got 15 knots from ...
    FCOM said:
    https://i.ibb.co/PgM669w/vref.jpg
    Majestic said the same thing:
    https://i.ibb.co/FX9kFjD/mj.jpg
    In even a third-party free calculator same thing +20 knots for flaps 35:
    https://old.dh8d.com/?page=metric-approach
    In addition, it seems to me that the speed Vref should be moved a higher position:
    https://i.ibb.co/4Rjxxvw/movevref.jpg
    VREF speed is a filled (black) triangle, not an empty one:
    https://i.ibb.co/rZwQdnT/vrefblk.jpg
  • edited September 3

    @niksan29 said:
    But why 15 knots ?! It should be 20, everywhere it says 20, I don’t know where you got 15 knots from ...

    As I had mentioned in an earlier post, the 15 knots correction is taken from an actual hard-copy Q400 AOM, which I have in my possession. It was given to me by a friend who flies the Q400 for SpiceJet. I cannot upload a scan of the pages here due to copyright restrictions, but here is the extract once again:

    "Add 20 kts to Vapp and Vga for Flaps 5, 10 and 15 on initial detection of ice and when flying in icing conditions"
    and:
    "On initial detection of ice and when flying in icing conditions, Add 20 kts to Vref for Flaps 10 and 15 and 15 kts for Flaps 35".

    @niksan29 said:
    In addition, it seems to me that the speed Vref should be moved a higher position:
    VREF speed is a filled (black) triangle, not an empty one:

    Your observations about the position and colour of the Vref bug are not, of course, related to the V-speed gauge.

  • edited September 3

    Have a good look at Table 19.6 you have referenced from FCOM 2.19.15 ..... you will see that the increment is +15 knots against Flaps 35.

  • edited September 3

    @ckovoor said:
    Your observations about the position and colour of the Vref bug are not, of course, related to the V-speed gauge.

    Why? if possible, just swap these bugs.
    First Vref(filled\black triangle) and then Vapp. Your utility enters these speeds on PFD does the opposite or am I wrong?

    @ckovoor said:

    Have a good look at Table 19.6

    You're right!
    Another text misled me(Use Flap 35° for Landing unless CAT II approach or with one engine inoperative.
    Bug increased VREF Speed and VCLIMB + 20 kts.)...

  • edited September 3

    @niksan29 said:

    @ckovoor said:
    Your observations about the position and colour of the Vref bug are not, of course, related to the V-speed gauge.

    Why? if possible, just swap these bugs.
    First Vref(filled\black triangle) and then Vapp. Your utility enters these speeds on PFD does the opposite or am I wrong?

    The gauge was coded more than 3 years ago. I do recall being aware that the the bugs ought to be assigned to Vref and Vclimb, but was unable to access any ready Tables to simply compute Vclimb on Approach/Landing. So I decided to assign the two lower bugs to Vref and Vapp instead, and also decided to map the Vref bug to that which was previously assigned to Vclimb on T/O and the Vapp bug similarly to the Vfri bug, but for no particular reason, as these were not the correct assignments anyway.

    Of course, as you now point out from the FCOM, Vref should be a black (filled) triangle, so I could change that, and I could even drop the Vapp bug, as it shouldn't be there anyway, and then everything would at least be "half as it should be". ...... I'll consider it.

  • edited September 3

    @ckovoor said:

    but was unable to access any ready Tables to simply compute Vclimb on Approach/Landing.

    probably because: http://majesticsoftware.com/forums/discussion/509/mjc8-q400-landing-speeds-card-incomplete-data#latest

    @ckovoor said:

    I'll consider it.

    Thank you!

  • edited September 4

    The Majestic Speeds Card is, I believe, only a summary or extraction from the Tables presented in the AOM Volume 2 (Performance). If the AOM itself does not contain any information on how Vclimb is to be computed prior to Landing, then we could hardly expect Majestic to provide it. I only wish a RW Q400 pilot would chip in and enlighten us on this matter.

    I have amended the code to optionally set only the solid triangular bug and assigned it to Vref. Thanks for pointing this out. Vapp will not be set any more.

    I have uploaded a new version 1.4 which incorporates these changes. It is available at:
    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ly3vz0dohpj7bt9/AAD12m9lMAc3XSr69H1zVg7Ma?dl=0

  • @ckovoor said:
    I have uploaded a new version 1.4 o:)

    Very fast, thank you for this wonderful tool!

  • Looking at the T/O-Climb table for Vclimb, I realized that Vclimb for Approach-Landing can be obtained from the same table, because it is solely a function of Aircraft Mass, which is known at all times. So it was an easy matter to amend the code to compute Vclimb again on Approach-Landing and assign it to the hollow triangular bug.

    Version 1.5 which incorporates this change is available at:
    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ly3vz0dohpj7bt9/AAD12m9lMAc3XSr69H1zVg7Ma?dl=0

  • edited September 5

    @ckovoor said:
    Looking at the T/O-Climb table for Vclimb, I realized that Vclimb for Approach-Landing can be obtained from the same table, because it is solely a function of Aircraft Mass

    Yes, it is, before v1.5 I just opened your tool and looked at this number in the take-off field , at the moment when preparing for landing B)

    Now the only problem with flaps is 5, there are no speeds for them:
    https://i.ibb.co/fGWPCvq/vreff.jpg
    Although we use flaps 5 extremely rarely, nevertheless approved for landing according to FCOM:
    https://i.ibb.co/hVvZHBy/flapss.jpg
    Probably, nothing can be changed here otherwise we will violate the logic of the your tool?

  • edited September 5

    @niksan29 said:

    Now the only problem with flaps is 5, there are no speeds for them:
    https://i.ibb.co/fGWPCvq/vreff.jpg

    No, nothing can be done about this....these speeds (Vref for Flaps 5) are missing from the tables in the AOM as well, and we cannot invent them. Another set of speeds which are missing are those for Vapp and Vga at Flaps 35. We cannot do anything about those either.

    @niksan29 said:

    Although we use flaps 5 extremely rarely, nevertheless approved for landing according to FCOM:
    https://i.ibb.co/hVvZHBy/flapss.jpg

    Actually this extract says that Flaps 5 is intended for use on Approach but not on Landing, similarly it says that Flaps 35 is intended for use on Landing but not on Approach.

  • edited September 5
    > @ckovoor said:
    > Actually this extract says that Flaps 5 is intended for use on Approach but not on Landing, similarly it says that Flaps 35 is intended for use on Landing but not on Approach

    and again I was inattentive, thanks! o:)
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